Hey Scott,
First off--I wouldn’t even consider anything from AvaHifi at this point; they’re really designed for 2-channel music lovers. I simply through that out there to give an example of expanded buying power via used equipment. Further, it sounds like Frank is aging--and I honestly don’t know what kind of future service & support they’ll be able to offer.
But with that said--we can definitely build you a great home theater for your space. I’ll try to respond to your questions one-at-a-time:
1. A receiver is nothing more than an amplifier, pre-amplifier, tuner all rolled into one. A home-theater receiver would be an amplifier, pre-amplifier, tuner, and processor all rolled into one. The latter is what you’re after. While dumb people like me may buy separate components, it really doesn’t offer you any real bang-for-your-buck; the level of improvement is truly minimal. Further, it’s way more expensive to do so.
2. I’d really look into the home-theater receivers built by Yamaha. For my money, they offer the best combination of home-theater digital processing and well-built amplification. Denon, H/K or Onkyo may be worth your look--but if it were me, I’d look no further than Yamaha. If Yamaha has a fault, it’s that their amplification sounds a little too crisp and clean (almost sounding cold). That may not be preferential in music, but many people *do* prefer this crispness in home-theater. (Further, we’re talking about the ever-most-subtle nuances here. I doubt you’d be able to even tell.) Yamaha’s digital processing is nearly second to none. However, Tim got an Onkyo receiver with a network input--so he can access his digital music library straight from his receiver. Sweet innovation, I think--provided you have a wired network (which you likely do not have). So it’s what you value. Tim valued networking, and I value digital processing. There is a compromise in everything.
3. Personally, I get scared as all poo at the thought of buying a home-theater receiver. And this is because home theater has become subject to changes in processing technology and Moore’s Law. (This means that buying used isn’t really an option, because you’ll be buying yester-year’s technology. One can stretch their buying power much better in a 2 channel system, because the variable of technology is essentially fixed.) So just go into this knowing that you’ve just purchased a piece of aging technology--just like a computer. As such, it may be worth your while to “future-proof” your purchase as best you can--i.e., making sure that it’s truly HDTV compatible. In many ways, this receiver will become your central “hub” for all your audio and visual devices. So if you guys ever upgrade to HDTV, you want to make sure that your home-theater receiver can support it. It looks like the best model at the moment might be the Yamaha RX-V861. I expect the street price from a reputable vender to be between $799 and $899. (ALWAYS BUY FROM REPUTABLE DEALERS; low-ball prices nail you every time.) This model has video up-conversion to HDMI, which is a key feature to have. The one thing that is lacking is the ability to support 1080-progressive--but that’s a mighty expensive feature to buy right now. Further, many HDTV’s don’t even support 1080p yet. So just know what you’re getting yourself into. It’ll work great now, but lack of 1080p may be limiting in 5+ years, or two TVs from now. (And there’s no way around failed “future-proofing”--even for the people with 5 and 6 digit budgets.) I know that this breaks the “spend 50% on speakers” notion, but if you want future HDTV compatibility, you’re going to have to spend for it, or postpone the purchase. But then you’ll always be postponing a purchase (like me). (And that’s why I really don’t do home-theater anymore; I just get tired of the changing specs and technology. Although it has stabilized in recent years. So just prepare yourself for a long-term relationship for whatever level of technology that you buy. Later and greater technologies will come, but you need to be satisfied (if not downright pleased) with what you’ve already purchased.) The quick evolution of technology really messes up this 50% rule of thumb. But no matter how you cut it, the most important aspect in sound reproduction are the speakers. Second most important is speaker placement. The third most important is the quality of the original source (i.e., recording) itself. Fourth would be amplification. Fifth would be components and interconnects. (Although sales people and pseudo-scientists will argue with this, because they want your money or they have “golden ears” to hear nuances that no one else can hear.)
4. An honest and personal question: I seem to recall that you hava a monaural hearing loss. How well are you able to locate sound? Because it seems to me that 5.1 (i.e., surround speakers) may not be as important to you as something like bass impact. (And bass impact may be of no use to you after the kids are in bed?) So an interesting option may be a 2.1 system. (i.e., a 2-channel stereo system with a big-arsed powered subwoofer for gut-wrenching punch.) (Sarah may prefer 2 speakers and sub vs. 5 speakers and a sub. Anyway--just a thought.)
5. Say it with me: “There is no replacement for (volume) displacement.” Stated differently, getting smaller speakers will result in sound degradation. Period. Anyone who says anything different is ignoring the simple laws of physics. The more air you move, the better the sonic results. So find a happy-medium between sound quality and speaker size (i.e., room aesthetics); or at least find a compromise. But with that said, this affects music more than movies. And if you want gut-wrenching bass-punch, you’re going to have to spend the bucks and realize that a big powered sub takes up a bit of space. One could save a bit of money by buying from PartsExpress. (I bought a house-brand sub, and was really pleased with the quality and bang-for-buck. I also assembled my own using their house-brand parts, and the thing can serve as a defibrillator.)
6. As far as speaker recommendations, I really don’t know. That’s such a subjective purchase. Further, buying speakers annoys me--because I don’t look at the speaker; I look at the (price) sum of it’s components, shake my head, and walk away. (The mark-up is usually greater than 300% over the price of components.) I can steer you to brands that I trust--but you may just need to listen to them and pick the ones that sound best to you. What I would try to do is buy last year’s models, which can save you between 30% and 50%. Polk’s RM6900 is a great example, although the color is ugly.
7. Here’s a tip for buying speakers. Unfortunately, many companies don’t design speakers to sound good; they design them to be bought (i.e., stand out in the show-room). They do this buy making them slightly more efficient (i.e., louder) than others. When comparing speakers, people seem to prefer the louder speaker as "sounding better". But this is psych-acoustics, not reality. They also intentionally design frequency bumps around 100 hz, to give people the illusion of “punchy bass”. But that annoys the heck out of me. I want my speaker’s frequency response to be flat, such that it will render an accurate reproduction of the source. So be aware when you go to audition speakers. Further, make sure you come with your own source. CD’s that you are intimately familiar. And train yourself to listen to certain aspect of the songs, like voice, evenness of bass instruments, and transient sounds (such as the sound of a finger plucking a guitar or a stand-up bass). Acoustic recordings generally provide the best samples. I can send you a few tracks, if you think it may help.
8. Some home theater speaker packages include a powered sub, some do not. Know what you’re getting, and factor that into your budget accordingly. You’re going to want a powered sub. PartsExpress sells some good quality subs, and some really excellent quality sub-kits at very reasonable prices.
9. The sound quality of a radio will be better than streaming online music. But any receiver will have a radio anyway.
10. Your receiver will serve as a central switching hub. That’s what I would do. (Such as the Yamaha in which I recommended.) Further, it supports optical input, which will work well with AirTunes.
11. Wireless surround speakers haven’t really caught-on yet. Pretty much all home-theater speaker packages are all wired. So you’re going to need to work around that limitation; tucking the wires between the carpet and the baseboard is often the best option. They also have special speaker wire that is very flat and can be painted over--in which case it almost becomes invisible. (Used this myself, with good result.) Use this special type of cable in short lengths for best sonic results (such as wall-mounted surround speakers.) They also have cable-covers that add wife-appeal to “ugly” cables; PartsExpress has these in spades.
12. As far as 5.1 speaker systems, I’d give Polk a look. Boston acoustics. Maybe Mirage, if you want smaller satellites. Warfdale, if you want to exceed your budget. There are numerous other options that could be excellent as well. But just based on the specs, the Athena Audition systems may be worth a serious look. (ASF2.1, ASF 2.2, LS). These seem to have a great bang for the buck. Don’t skimp on the center channel (as it’s the most important speaker), and dipolar or bipolar surround speakers really do outperform traditional bookshelf speaker designs (for surround speaker use).
Yet another marathon entry. Wasted enough time; gotta get back to work... P.S. Let’s get Tim in on this; he recently did his H/T from scratch...
First off--I wouldn’t even consider anything from AvaHifi at this point; they’re really designed for 2-channel music lovers. I simply through that out there to give an example of expanded buying power via used equipment. Further, it sounds like Frank is aging--and I honestly don’t know what kind of future service & support they’ll be able to offer.
But with that said--we can definitely build you a great home theater for your space. I’ll try to respond to your questions one-at-a-time:
1. A receiver is nothing more than an amplifier, pre-amplifier, tuner all rolled into one. A home-theater receiver would be an amplifier, pre-amplifier, tuner, and processor all rolled into one. The latter is what you’re after. While dumb people like me may buy separate components, it really doesn’t offer you any real bang-for-your-buck; the level of improvement is truly minimal. Further, it’s way more expensive to do so.
2. I’d really look into the home-theater receivers built by Yamaha. For my money, they offer the best combination of home-theater digital processing and well-built amplification. Denon, H/K or Onkyo may be worth your look--but if it were me, I’d look no further than Yamaha. If Yamaha has a fault, it’s that their amplification sounds a little too crisp and clean (almost sounding cold). That may not be preferential in music, but many people *do* prefer this crispness in home-theater. (Further, we’re talking about the ever-most-subtle nuances here. I doubt you’d be able to even tell.) Yamaha’s digital processing is nearly second to none. However, Tim got an Onkyo receiver with a network input--so he can access his digital music library straight from his receiver. Sweet innovation, I think--provided you have a wired network (which you likely do not have). So it’s what you value. Tim valued networking, and I value digital processing. There is a compromise in everything.
3. Personally, I get scared as all poo at the thought of buying a home-theater receiver. And this is because home theater has become subject to changes in processing technology and Moore’s Law. (This means that buying used isn’t really an option, because you’ll be buying yester-year’s technology. One can stretch their buying power much better in a 2 channel system, because the variable of technology is essentially fixed.) So just go into this knowing that you’ve just purchased a piece of aging technology--just like a computer. As such, it may be worth your while to “future-proof” your purchase as best you can--i.e., making sure that it’s truly HDTV compatible. In many ways, this receiver will become your central “hub” for all your audio and visual devices. So if you guys ever upgrade to HDTV, you want to make sure that your home-theater receiver can support it. It looks like the best model at the moment might be the Yamaha RX-V861. I expect the street price from a reputable vender to be between $799 and $899. (ALWAYS BUY FROM REPUTABLE DEALERS; low-ball prices nail you every time.) This model has video up-conversion to HDMI, which is a key feature to have. The one thing that is lacking is the ability to support 1080-progressive--but that’s a mighty expensive feature to buy right now. Further, many HDTV’s don’t even support 1080p yet. So just know what you’re getting yourself into. It’ll work great now, but lack of 1080p may be limiting in 5+ years, or two TVs from now. (And there’s no way around failed “future-proofing”--even for the people with 5 and 6 digit budgets.) I know that this breaks the “spend 50% on speakers” notion, but if you want future HDTV compatibility, you’re going to have to spend for it, or postpone the purchase. But then you’ll always be postponing a purchase (like me). (And that’s why I really don’t do home-theater anymore; I just get tired of the changing specs and technology. Although it has stabilized in recent years. So just prepare yourself for a long-term relationship for whatever level of technology that you buy. Later and greater technologies will come, but you need to be satisfied (if not downright pleased) with what you’ve already purchased.) The quick evolution of technology really messes up this 50% rule of thumb. But no matter how you cut it, the most important aspect in sound reproduction are the speakers. Second most important is speaker placement. The third most important is the quality of the original source (i.e., recording) itself. Fourth would be amplification. Fifth would be components and interconnects. (Although sales people and pseudo-scientists will argue with this, because they want your money or they have “golden ears” to hear nuances that no one else can hear.)
4. An honest and personal question: I seem to recall that you hava a monaural hearing loss. How well are you able to locate sound? Because it seems to me that 5.1 (i.e., surround speakers) may not be as important to you as something like bass impact. (And bass impact may be of no use to you after the kids are in bed?) So an interesting option may be a 2.1 system. (i.e., a 2-channel stereo system with a big-arsed powered subwoofer for gut-wrenching punch.) (Sarah may prefer 2 speakers and sub vs. 5 speakers and a sub. Anyway--just a thought.)
5. Say it with me: “There is no replacement for (volume) displacement.” Stated differently, getting smaller speakers will result in sound degradation. Period. Anyone who says anything different is ignoring the simple laws of physics. The more air you move, the better the sonic results. So find a happy-medium between sound quality and speaker size (i.e., room aesthetics); or at least find a compromise. But with that said, this affects music more than movies. And if you want gut-wrenching bass-punch, you’re going to have to spend the bucks and realize that a big powered sub takes up a bit of space. One could save a bit of money by buying from PartsExpress. (I bought a house-brand sub, and was really pleased with the quality and bang-for-buck. I also assembled my own using their house-brand parts, and the thing can serve as a defibrillator.)
6. As far as speaker recommendations, I really don’t know. That’s such a subjective purchase. Further, buying speakers annoys me--because I don’t look at the speaker; I look at the (price) sum of it’s components, shake my head, and walk away. (The mark-up is usually greater than 300% over the price of components.) I can steer you to brands that I trust--but you may just need to listen to them and pick the ones that sound best to you. What I would try to do is buy last year’s models, which can save you between 30% and 50%. Polk’s RM6900 is a great example, although the color is ugly.
7. Here’s a tip for buying speakers. Unfortunately, many companies don’t design speakers to sound good; they design them to be bought (i.e., stand out in the show-room). They do this buy making them slightly more efficient (i.e., louder) than others. When comparing speakers, people seem to prefer the louder speaker as "sounding better". But this is psych-acoustics, not reality. They also intentionally design frequency bumps around 100 hz, to give people the illusion of “punchy bass”. But that annoys the heck out of me. I want my speaker’s frequency response to be flat, such that it will render an accurate reproduction of the source. So be aware when you go to audition speakers. Further, make sure you come with your own source. CD’s that you are intimately familiar. And train yourself to listen to certain aspect of the songs, like voice, evenness of bass instruments, and transient sounds (such as the sound of a finger plucking a guitar or a stand-up bass). Acoustic recordings generally provide the best samples. I can send you a few tracks, if you think it may help.
8. Some home theater speaker packages include a powered sub, some do not. Know what you’re getting, and factor that into your budget accordingly. You’re going to want a powered sub. PartsExpress sells some good quality subs, and some really excellent quality sub-kits at very reasonable prices.
9. The sound quality of a radio will be better than streaming online music. But any receiver will have a radio anyway.
10. Your receiver will serve as a central switching hub. That’s what I would do. (Such as the Yamaha in which I recommended.) Further, it supports optical input, which will work well with AirTunes.
11. Wireless surround speakers haven’t really caught-on yet. Pretty much all home-theater speaker packages are all wired. So you’re going to need to work around that limitation; tucking the wires between the carpet and the baseboard is often the best option. They also have special speaker wire that is very flat and can be painted over--in which case it almost becomes invisible. (Used this myself, with good result.) Use this special type of cable in short lengths for best sonic results (such as wall-mounted surround speakers.) They also have cable-covers that add wife-appeal to “ugly” cables; PartsExpress has these in spades.
12. As far as 5.1 speaker systems, I’d give Polk a look. Boston acoustics. Maybe Mirage, if you want smaller satellites. Warfdale, if you want to exceed your budget. There are numerous other options that could be excellent as well. But just based on the specs, the Athena Audition systems may be worth a serious look. (ASF2.1, ASF 2.2, LS). These seem to have a great bang for the buck. Don’t skimp on the center channel (as it’s the most important speaker), and dipolar or bipolar surround speakers really do outperform traditional bookshelf speaker designs (for surround speaker use).
Yet another marathon entry. Wasted enough time; gotta get back to work... P.S. Let’s get Tim in on this; he recently did his H/T from scratch...
posted by Greg | 1:37 PM
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